06-10-2004, 07:00 PM
In line with our goal of giving you, our members, what you seem to want, here is an interview with Wizkids' Director of Game Design Jon Leitheusser.
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Posted 09/06/2004
Source The Pulse
BY D. C. DILL
Friday, May 21st was the opening day of Wizard World East in Philadelphia. I got a chance to sit down for over an hour with Director of Game Design Jon Leitheusser and interview him about WizKidsâ wildly popular game, HeroClix. As almost all HeroClix fanboys will know, Jon Leitheusser is the main designer for HeroClix at WizKids, Inc. HeroClix is a table top battle game using miniatures of super heroes with their stats and powers displayed on the base on which they stand. As the character takes damage, the base gets âclickedâ and different stats appear, reflecting a change in the character. Itâs simple, fun, and widely popular. My wife Lorie and I are big HeroClix fans. So while we were both disappointed to miss out on Galactus, we were thrilled to get a chance to talk to Jon.
THE PULSE: Whatâs your background in comics and gaming?
LEITHEUSSER: [PULSE NOTE: (pronounced LIGHT-HOUSE-ER) ] I started when I was ten, and Iâm thirty-four now. I started playing role-playing games at age 12. Iâve always loved comics, and Iâve worked in a comic store and for a comics distributor. From there, I started my own publishing company before finally landing the job at WizKids.
THE PULSE: Marvel or DC?
LEITHEUSSER: When I was a kid, I preferred Marvel. But now I really donât have any preference for one company over another. Iâm more interested in quality stories and accurate representations of the characters more than I am about whoâs publishing the books.
THE PULSE: Do you read current comics? What are your favorite books?
LEITHEUSSER: Planetary, the Flash, Daredevil, JSA, the Amazing Spider-Man, Ultimate Fantastic Four, Invincible and almost anything by Brian Michael Bendis.
THE PULSE: What about Aquaman?
LEITHEUSSER: I picked up the book with the latest creative team and thought it was going in a good direction.
THE PULSE: You list Planetary as your favorite book, so why are there no Planetary or Authority HeroClix pieces yet?
LEITHEUSSER: There are several reasons for that. One is that the Planetary license is Wildstorm, not DC, and the legal issues would be slightly different. Another is the more adult themed issues that Planetary (or the Authority) deals with. When considering characters for HeroClix, one of the considerations is that a kid might get a character in a booster and want to know more about the character. Leading kids to those books might not be the best strategy when introducing kids to comics.
THE PULSE: Thatâs understandable, but how could you list Ultimate Fantastic Four as your favorite Ultimate book on the first day of the pre-release for HeroClix Ultimates, a set which featured characters from Ultimate Spider-Man, Ultimates, and Ultimate X-Men, but no characters from Ultimate Fantastic Four?
LEITHEUSSER: Simple. When I designed the set, the book hadnât been announced yet.
THE PULSE: How often do you get a chance to play for fun? Whoâs your favorite piece? Do you ever play theme teams or strictly strategy teams?
LEITHEUSSER: I donât get to play for fun very often, infrequently, at best. Most of my HeroClix time is spent play testing pieces and concepts that are still in development. Iâm not really super competitive with the game, so when playing for fun I make a team I want to play, not a hyper-competitive team. Some of the theme teams Iâve built center more on how a lot of one power would work out; like an all Blades/Claws/Fangs team â just to see how it performs and if itâs a viable strategy. When working on tournament-style teams I put a lot more thought into it.
THE PULSE: WizKids just announced a Lord of the Rings game. Will that be miniatures based? And are there any hard feelings about the current Lord of the Rings table top, click-base game currently being offered by Sabretooth Games?
LEITHEUSSER: No hard feelings at all. The thought didnât even occur to us. WizKids as a whole feels great about getting the Lord of the Rings license and the fact that we couldnât do a click-based miniature version of the property never stopped us. The general feeling is that we are already doing a fantasy based miniature game (MageKnight), and we wanted to do something different with the Lord of the Rings property. Weâre using the same styrene card method that weâve developed for Pirates of the Spanish Main. And our goal is to offer the kind of battles that are too huge in scope to center around individual miniature type pieces.
[PULSE NOTE: See the WizKids websiteâs Lord of the Rings announcement for more info. Pirates of the Spanish Main is expected to release in July. Lord of the Rings is listed as coming in October.
THE PULSE: Unleashed was released in the end of April and Ultimates is due sometime in June. Thatâs barely three months between releases. And in the middle youâve got Universe. It seems that 2004 is packed with HeroClix. Do you think the increased frequency will hurt the line in the long run? Will the second half of the year be as crowded with new releases as the first half? Are you looking at setting up a standard amount of time between releases?
LEITHEUSSER: I think that the release time between DC HeroClix Unleashed and Marvel HeroClix Ultimates (which is about three months) is just fine. I donât think that the end of June release for Ultimates will hurt Unleashed, and thatâs mostly because Unleashed has already exceeded expectations. Unleashed has been the best selling DC set to date. I donât think that Marvel Universe really hurts the releases between Unleashed and Ultimates, and thatâs because Universe is not aimed at the hard-core HeroClix fan. We built Marvel Universe with the idea that hard core fanboys could buy a starter set, get the rules and the only six pieces that are unique to Universe, and never have to pick up the rest of the set. Universe is meant more for new players, and for that reason I donât think it will have on impact on Unleashed or Ultimates. In my opinion, three months between sets sounds about right. It will probably be closer to four months between sets in the future, and thereâs one more HeroClix set scheduled to release in 2004.
THE PULSE: Are there any new game mechanics coming up, like relics for MageKnight or mountable pieces?
LEITHEUSSER: Yeah, some new things are coming up. But thatâs all I can say right now.
THE PULSE: That Bat Sentry in Unleashed was a nice touch. Although it did mess up the distribution a tad, I think fans were overall pleased with the outcome. And especially since it didnât take the slot of a unique. Are there any plans to continue the oversized figure type piece with characters like Giant Man or Colossal Boy?
LEITHEUSSER: Yes, definitely. Bat Sentry was a big hit and we do indeed plan on putting out more double sized figures. As for messing up the case distribution, thatâs not really a factor. It amounts to the loss of one super-common figure so we could fit the Bat Sentry in. Bat Sentry didnât take the place of a Unique, and we donât intend to change that.
THE PULSE: Do you think that Marvel Universe is off to a good start in your goal of reaching a much wider audience?
LEITHEUSSER: Yes. We seem to be shipping Universe out to a whole lot of new stores that we previously didnât ship to. So that alone is an indication that Universe is off to a strong start.
THE PULSE: How did you approach deciding which characters went into the Universe set? Many fanboys were surprised that pieces like the Con Artist got included along with expected stalwarts Spider-Man, Hulk, and Iron Man. Were those decisions made strictly on popularity of the character or was playability involved?
LEITHEUSSER: Both of those factors were considered, along with how the characters are arranged together on the production moulds. (The production moulds of a set, amongst other things, decides the rarity and distribution levels of different characters.)
THE PULSE: To many it seemed that Clobberinâ Time got the shaft when it came to Universe. Why was Clobberinâ Time passed over for inclusion in the Marvel Universe set?
LEITHEUSSER: You have to look at it more from the business end of things. Clobberinâ Time was more of a fanboy set. Xplosion has more marquee pieces with more public visibility. And since Mr. Fantastic and Dr. Doom were on a different mould than Thing, Human Torch, and Invisible Woman, it was impractical to get the whole Fantastic Four into the Marvel Universe set.
THE PULSE: Generally speaking, what did you do different in approaching the Ultimate universe? Did you give thought to comparison between the two different versions of the character? If the Marvel Universe Cap is considered to be WizKidsâ definition of the character, is the Marvel Ultimates Cap really that much cooler than the Marvel Universe Cap comic-wise?
LEITHEUSSER: How pieces compare is definitely a factor when I design a set. It can be a little more difficult with the older sets, as thereâs been âScope Creepâ in stats and powers since the beginning. By âScope Creepâ I mean that characters are getting more powerful in every expansion. Itâs fairly natural, but it can lead to problems. I look back at the original Robin from Hypertime and canât believe what I see. In my opinion, Robin should have so much more than what he has there. Iâm not a fan of the Captain America from Marvel Infinity Challenge. I donât see it as an accurate portrayal of the Marvel Universe Cap and I would like a chance to do a better version. Thatâs reflected in how I handled the Captain America piece from Ultimates. Itâs a very different piece than the Infinity Challenge Cap, because I wanted to make something completely different. So when designing the Ultimate Cap, I tailored the piece more towards the rough and tumble version found in the Ultimates comic book.
THE PULSE: May marked two years since the release of Marvel HeroClix, and September marks two years since the release of DC HeroClix. Any plans for a DC Universe set? Any plans for retiring some Hypertime pieces?
LEITHEUSSER: I donât know of any plans to make a DC set similar to the Marvel Universe set. But I do know that DC will definitely start to retire sets based on newer expansions. The details havenât been released yet.
THE PULSE: Will the retiring of lines remain universe specific? Only Marvel lines cancelled with the addition of new Marvel lines?
LEITHEUSSER: Yes. Thatâs the plan.
THE PULSE: Because of the character-driven nature of HeroClix, itâs inherently different from MageKnight in terms of retiring characters. With Clobberinâ Time next on the chopping block, fans lose some Marvel mainstay characters for tournament play. Any plans to redo the Marvel Universe versions of Thor, the Fantastic Four, Nightcrawler, and Nick Fury? Will Marvel Mainstays be re-done every couple of sets to keep such characters in rotation? Will the Marvel Universe set ever be added to?
LEITHEUSSER: Yes, I have every intention of cycling back through some characters and reintroducing them as their original versions are retired, although the specifics arenât in place yet. There are no totally new characters in the Marvel Universe set, and if we ever do additional sets similar to the Marvel Universe set weâll continue with that idea. Again, Universe is designed for a wider audience that probably hasnât been introduced to HeroClix yet. So we kept the pieces that were unique to Universe limited to the starter. The reason for doing this was so we could have a starter box that definitely was a starter, with pieces and point totals that allowed a game to be played immediately out of the box.
THE PULSE: The Flash is widely known to be much faster than Quicksilver. Do you seek balance between the Universes⦠do you take character stats from Marvel in mind when designing DC and vice-versa?
LEITHEUSSER: Yes, I definitely look at that. And while Quicksilver may have a higher speed value, he doesnât have Hypersonic Speed, and between those figures that makes a big difference.
THE PULSE: Can fans expect to see new maps soon? Scenarios? Big figs or anything outside of a normal release?
LEITHEUSSER: I would like to do more maps. The map packs we put out last summer meets some of the need for maps. There are currently no plans for more big figs or anything other than a regular release.
THE PULSE: Marvel Universe seemed like a good opportunity for hard-core HeroClix fans to get a new map. Instead, a shorter, tournament-illegal, reworked version of an old map was included. Why wasnât a standard sized map included with Marvel Universe?
LEITHEUSSER: Again, the business side of things comes into play. It all boils down to cost. The reduction in the size of the map in the Universe set helped us to put the Starter set out at such a low price. It isnât ideal in terms of game play, but it was the best way to go when keeping in mind the goal of the Marvel Universe set to pull in new players.
THE PULSE: Tell me about Galactus-Gate at Wizard World L.A. from your perspective.
LEITHEUSSER: I think the term âGalactus-Gateâ is inappropriate. The situation was problematic, but it wasnât impeachment-worthy. The reasons for what happened have already been mentioned. Ten thousand more people showed up than what either WizKids or the Wizard World people were expecting. And there was no way to forecast that kind of turnout. There was nothing Machiavellian on the part of WizKids about Galactus, it was really a matter of not knowing. We wanted to make Galactus something cool and neat and itâs a shame that his debut didnât go as well as we would have liked. As for making Galactus more common, thatâs not going to happen. The idea of Galactus as a convention exclusive is that heâs a limited edition piece than not everyone is going to get. If you manage to get one, then itâs special and if you donât you keep trying. It drives excitement and interest. Once we make him available to everyone, then thereâs nothing special about him. Many, many companies do things like this and itâs surprising that people have reacted the way they have to it. Hopefully the changes weâve made for how the figures will be sold at future shows will make it more positive for everyone.
THE PULSE: For every thirty fanboys that live and die by the glory of HeroClix, thereâs at least one nitwit that has nothing good to say about it. Unfortunately, itâs that nitwit thatâs most vocal on the message boards. What goes through your head when you see some of the negativity on message boards about your product?
LEITHEUSSER: Most of what gets me really bothered on the message boards is misinformation. Either opinion presented as fact or something thatâs just horribly wrong in the first place. I rarely jump in to correct someone, as that can lead to a drawn out discussion I donât have the time to be involved in. When approaching message board topics regarding HeroClix, I start with the assumption that nobody has anything positive to say. I counted. When we released the sneak peek of Marvel Girl, the first negative post was only four posts in, and it started to go downhill from there. I stopped reading at about six posts.
THE PULSE: Does a message board thread along the lines of âHereâs how I wouldâve done the characterâ ever influence your creations?
LEITHEUSSER: No⦠Never. First of all, if theyâre reworking a character Iâve already done, my thoughts are âthatâs interesting, but Iâve already done the characterâ. If itâs a character I havenât seen, I donât even want to look. I just donât want to pollute myself. Itâs too fine a line between inspiration and plagiarism. I admit that if Iâm not a big fan of the character, then people who are a big fan may be upset by the representation. I canât know all the comic characters out there, but Iâm a fair authority on the majority of them. Lady Shiva and the first Batgirl from DC Cosmic Justice were harshly criticized and I probably could have been done better on them if I were a bigger fan of those characters. I try to make every character as accurate as possible, but ultimately, these are all my interpretations of the characters and they will naturally differ from someone elseâs.
THE PULSE: How do you go about picking the line ups for the releases? Do fans have any input? Playtesters? Is it a committee decision or all on you?
LEITHEUSSER: Playtesters and fans donât have any official say but I pay attention to what theyâre asking for. Really, the line-ups for releases all start with me. I come up with the entire set and run it by the marketing department for approval. Sometimes one of the WizKids sculptors will request to do a certain character, and Iâll put that character in the set knowing Iâll get back a really good sculpt. Itâs funny, but sometimes I see peopleâs wish lists on line and theyâre taking credit for predicting half the characters in the next set. And I think, well sure, if you guess 150 characters 20 are probably going to be right. An example of a character thatâs been brought up and dismissed is DCâs Etrigan the Demon. Just too many issues surrounding putting a character named âthe Demonâ in the set. That doesnât mean Iâve given up on the character, though. Iâd like to get him in eventually.
THE PULSE: Characters from Kingdom Come appeared in Unleashed. Was Alex Ross involved on any level with DC Unleashed?
LEITHEUSSER: DC owns the rights to those characters, so it was DC Comics who signed off on WizKids being able to use those characters. Alex was asked to do the box art for the set, but that didnât happen for a variety of reasons. And when DC found out that Alex couldnât do the box art, they asked that none of the Kingdom Come characters be used on the box art. They didnât want anybody but Alex to handle the characters. Theyâre thinking was that if it wasnât Alex, than it wouldnât look right. And thatâs something I agree with. Even so, it would be great to get his art on the boxes at some point. Hopefully in the future.
THE PULSE: Are you kept apprised of storylines in advance? For instance, did you know that Xorn was Magneto before any fanboy had an inkling? Do Marvel and DC try to keep you aware of upcoming character changes?
LEITHEUSSER: No. We didnât know about Xorn. They donât tell us that sort of thing. It wouldâve been nice to know about Xorn in advance. We often ask about plans for a certain characters, and which characters would be nice to include in a set. Itâs nice to dovetail characters with a new comic release, or a movie appearance. Another example of changes to characters that we couldnât have known about is when they gave Archangel the power to heal people. Wellâ¦we just put out an Archangel and he didnât have that power when we created him, so I couldnât have put it on the dial. That sort of thing happens because of how far ahead we have to make the dials. Still, it wouldâve been nice to know.
THE PULSE: Marvel has the premier set, four expansions, and now Universe. DC has the premier set and two expansions. Do you rank DC lower than Marvel in terms of WizKidsâ priorities? How do the two match up in your upcoming schedules?
LEITHEUSSER: Thereâs no preference on the part of WizKids towards one comic company or the other. I view HeroClix as one game line. The only reason for any perceived Marvel dominance is that Marvel is making movies. Xplosion and Ultimates were put out to coincide with the big Marvel summer movies. When DC starts putting out more movies, maybe weâll swing that way.
THE PULSE: When can we hope to see the next DC set?
LEITHEUSSER: Itâll be a little while, but it will happen. Thatâs all I can say.
THE PULSE: Any plans to branch out in the DC Universe with teams like the Outsiders, the Metal Men, and the Doom Patrol, or expand rosters of teams like the JSA and the Legion? Any plans for Silver Age versions of some characters? Any plans for the animated Teen Titans?
LEITHEUSSER: Yeah, weâre definitely looking to expand. The problems with adding team abilities is that thereâs only so much room on the Powers and Abilities Card. Iâve been working on some other options, though, so you may see a different approach in the future. Iâm interested in doing Golden or Silver Age versions of DC Characters, especially Barry Allen. But those choices have to be made carefully, because character recognition is important and some of the Silver Age versions look completely different from the current day version. Thatâs not a problem in the Flashâs case, but it certainly is for others. As for the animated versions of the Teen Titans, thatâs a different license completely, so no plans for them.
THE PULSE: When can we expect to see the entirely Aquaman-themed DC HeroClix set?
LEITHEUSSER: Uhmmm ⦠next week. [laughs]
PULSE NOTES
About the Catwoman special edition piece, can fans redeem UPC symbols from Hypertime starter sets they bought two years ago? Can they substitute UPC symbols from the DC Premier Edition set?
Jon didnât know the answer to this, and asked me to check with marketing. I sent a quick note to Jason Mical, Communications Manager for WizKids, Inc. The answer I got back was that the register receipt had to be dated after June 4th, 2004. And yes, fans can use the UPCs from Premium Starter sets.
More information about the Catwoman special edition piece can be viewed at the WizKids website
Thanks to Jon Leitheusser for taking the time to withstand an interview with me. Marvel HeroClix Ultimates releases on June 30th, 2004 and Marvel Universe is in stores now. For more information about WizKids and their products, please visit their website.
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Posted 09/06/2004
Source The Pulse
BY D. C. DILL
Friday, May 21st was the opening day of Wizard World East in Philadelphia. I got a chance to sit down for over an hour with Director of Game Design Jon Leitheusser and interview him about WizKidsâ wildly popular game, HeroClix. As almost all HeroClix fanboys will know, Jon Leitheusser is the main designer for HeroClix at WizKids, Inc. HeroClix is a table top battle game using miniatures of super heroes with their stats and powers displayed on the base on which they stand. As the character takes damage, the base gets âclickedâ and different stats appear, reflecting a change in the character. Itâs simple, fun, and widely popular. My wife Lorie and I are big HeroClix fans. So while we were both disappointed to miss out on Galactus, we were thrilled to get a chance to talk to Jon.
THE PULSE: Whatâs your background in comics and gaming?
LEITHEUSSER: [PULSE NOTE: (pronounced LIGHT-HOUSE-ER) ] I started when I was ten, and Iâm thirty-four now. I started playing role-playing games at age 12. Iâve always loved comics, and Iâve worked in a comic store and for a comics distributor. From there, I started my own publishing company before finally landing the job at WizKids.
THE PULSE: Marvel or DC?
LEITHEUSSER: When I was a kid, I preferred Marvel. But now I really donât have any preference for one company over another. Iâm more interested in quality stories and accurate representations of the characters more than I am about whoâs publishing the books.
THE PULSE: Do you read current comics? What are your favorite books?
LEITHEUSSER: Planetary, the Flash, Daredevil, JSA, the Amazing Spider-Man, Ultimate Fantastic Four, Invincible and almost anything by Brian Michael Bendis.
THE PULSE: What about Aquaman?
LEITHEUSSER: I picked up the book with the latest creative team and thought it was going in a good direction.
THE PULSE: You list Planetary as your favorite book, so why are there no Planetary or Authority HeroClix pieces yet?
LEITHEUSSER: There are several reasons for that. One is that the Planetary license is Wildstorm, not DC, and the legal issues would be slightly different. Another is the more adult themed issues that Planetary (or the Authority) deals with. When considering characters for HeroClix, one of the considerations is that a kid might get a character in a booster and want to know more about the character. Leading kids to those books might not be the best strategy when introducing kids to comics.
THE PULSE: Thatâs understandable, but how could you list Ultimate Fantastic Four as your favorite Ultimate book on the first day of the pre-release for HeroClix Ultimates, a set which featured characters from Ultimate Spider-Man, Ultimates, and Ultimate X-Men, but no characters from Ultimate Fantastic Four?
LEITHEUSSER: Simple. When I designed the set, the book hadnât been announced yet.
THE PULSE: How often do you get a chance to play for fun? Whoâs your favorite piece? Do you ever play theme teams or strictly strategy teams?
LEITHEUSSER: I donât get to play for fun very often, infrequently, at best. Most of my HeroClix time is spent play testing pieces and concepts that are still in development. Iâm not really super competitive with the game, so when playing for fun I make a team I want to play, not a hyper-competitive team. Some of the theme teams Iâve built center more on how a lot of one power would work out; like an all Blades/Claws/Fangs team â just to see how it performs and if itâs a viable strategy. When working on tournament-style teams I put a lot more thought into it.
THE PULSE: WizKids just announced a Lord of the Rings game. Will that be miniatures based? And are there any hard feelings about the current Lord of the Rings table top, click-base game currently being offered by Sabretooth Games?
LEITHEUSSER: No hard feelings at all. The thought didnât even occur to us. WizKids as a whole feels great about getting the Lord of the Rings license and the fact that we couldnât do a click-based miniature version of the property never stopped us. The general feeling is that we are already doing a fantasy based miniature game (MageKnight), and we wanted to do something different with the Lord of the Rings property. Weâre using the same styrene card method that weâve developed for Pirates of the Spanish Main. And our goal is to offer the kind of battles that are too huge in scope to center around individual miniature type pieces.
[PULSE NOTE: See the WizKids websiteâs Lord of the Rings announcement for more info. Pirates of the Spanish Main is expected to release in July. Lord of the Rings is listed as coming in October.
THE PULSE: Unleashed was released in the end of April and Ultimates is due sometime in June. Thatâs barely three months between releases. And in the middle youâve got Universe. It seems that 2004 is packed with HeroClix. Do you think the increased frequency will hurt the line in the long run? Will the second half of the year be as crowded with new releases as the first half? Are you looking at setting up a standard amount of time between releases?
LEITHEUSSER: I think that the release time between DC HeroClix Unleashed and Marvel HeroClix Ultimates (which is about three months) is just fine. I donât think that the end of June release for Ultimates will hurt Unleashed, and thatâs mostly because Unleashed has already exceeded expectations. Unleashed has been the best selling DC set to date. I donât think that Marvel Universe really hurts the releases between Unleashed and Ultimates, and thatâs because Universe is not aimed at the hard-core HeroClix fan. We built Marvel Universe with the idea that hard core fanboys could buy a starter set, get the rules and the only six pieces that are unique to Universe, and never have to pick up the rest of the set. Universe is meant more for new players, and for that reason I donât think it will have on impact on Unleashed or Ultimates. In my opinion, three months between sets sounds about right. It will probably be closer to four months between sets in the future, and thereâs one more HeroClix set scheduled to release in 2004.
THE PULSE: Are there any new game mechanics coming up, like relics for MageKnight or mountable pieces?
LEITHEUSSER: Yeah, some new things are coming up. But thatâs all I can say right now.
THE PULSE: That Bat Sentry in Unleashed was a nice touch. Although it did mess up the distribution a tad, I think fans were overall pleased with the outcome. And especially since it didnât take the slot of a unique. Are there any plans to continue the oversized figure type piece with characters like Giant Man or Colossal Boy?
LEITHEUSSER: Yes, definitely. Bat Sentry was a big hit and we do indeed plan on putting out more double sized figures. As for messing up the case distribution, thatâs not really a factor. It amounts to the loss of one super-common figure so we could fit the Bat Sentry in. Bat Sentry didnât take the place of a Unique, and we donât intend to change that.
THE PULSE: Do you think that Marvel Universe is off to a good start in your goal of reaching a much wider audience?
LEITHEUSSER: Yes. We seem to be shipping Universe out to a whole lot of new stores that we previously didnât ship to. So that alone is an indication that Universe is off to a strong start.
THE PULSE: How did you approach deciding which characters went into the Universe set? Many fanboys were surprised that pieces like the Con Artist got included along with expected stalwarts Spider-Man, Hulk, and Iron Man. Were those decisions made strictly on popularity of the character or was playability involved?
LEITHEUSSER: Both of those factors were considered, along with how the characters are arranged together on the production moulds. (The production moulds of a set, amongst other things, decides the rarity and distribution levels of different characters.)
THE PULSE: To many it seemed that Clobberinâ Time got the shaft when it came to Universe. Why was Clobberinâ Time passed over for inclusion in the Marvel Universe set?
LEITHEUSSER: You have to look at it more from the business end of things. Clobberinâ Time was more of a fanboy set. Xplosion has more marquee pieces with more public visibility. And since Mr. Fantastic and Dr. Doom were on a different mould than Thing, Human Torch, and Invisible Woman, it was impractical to get the whole Fantastic Four into the Marvel Universe set.
THE PULSE: Generally speaking, what did you do different in approaching the Ultimate universe? Did you give thought to comparison between the two different versions of the character? If the Marvel Universe Cap is considered to be WizKidsâ definition of the character, is the Marvel Ultimates Cap really that much cooler than the Marvel Universe Cap comic-wise?
LEITHEUSSER: How pieces compare is definitely a factor when I design a set. It can be a little more difficult with the older sets, as thereâs been âScope Creepâ in stats and powers since the beginning. By âScope Creepâ I mean that characters are getting more powerful in every expansion. Itâs fairly natural, but it can lead to problems. I look back at the original Robin from Hypertime and canât believe what I see. In my opinion, Robin should have so much more than what he has there. Iâm not a fan of the Captain America from Marvel Infinity Challenge. I donât see it as an accurate portrayal of the Marvel Universe Cap and I would like a chance to do a better version. Thatâs reflected in how I handled the Captain America piece from Ultimates. Itâs a very different piece than the Infinity Challenge Cap, because I wanted to make something completely different. So when designing the Ultimate Cap, I tailored the piece more towards the rough and tumble version found in the Ultimates comic book.
THE PULSE: May marked two years since the release of Marvel HeroClix, and September marks two years since the release of DC HeroClix. Any plans for a DC Universe set? Any plans for retiring some Hypertime pieces?
LEITHEUSSER: I donât know of any plans to make a DC set similar to the Marvel Universe set. But I do know that DC will definitely start to retire sets based on newer expansions. The details havenât been released yet.
THE PULSE: Will the retiring of lines remain universe specific? Only Marvel lines cancelled with the addition of new Marvel lines?
LEITHEUSSER: Yes. Thatâs the plan.
THE PULSE: Because of the character-driven nature of HeroClix, itâs inherently different from MageKnight in terms of retiring characters. With Clobberinâ Time next on the chopping block, fans lose some Marvel mainstay characters for tournament play. Any plans to redo the Marvel Universe versions of Thor, the Fantastic Four, Nightcrawler, and Nick Fury? Will Marvel Mainstays be re-done every couple of sets to keep such characters in rotation? Will the Marvel Universe set ever be added to?
LEITHEUSSER: Yes, I have every intention of cycling back through some characters and reintroducing them as their original versions are retired, although the specifics arenât in place yet. There are no totally new characters in the Marvel Universe set, and if we ever do additional sets similar to the Marvel Universe set weâll continue with that idea. Again, Universe is designed for a wider audience that probably hasnât been introduced to HeroClix yet. So we kept the pieces that were unique to Universe limited to the starter. The reason for doing this was so we could have a starter box that definitely was a starter, with pieces and point totals that allowed a game to be played immediately out of the box.
THE PULSE: The Flash is widely known to be much faster than Quicksilver. Do you seek balance between the Universes⦠do you take character stats from Marvel in mind when designing DC and vice-versa?
LEITHEUSSER: Yes, I definitely look at that. And while Quicksilver may have a higher speed value, he doesnât have Hypersonic Speed, and between those figures that makes a big difference.
THE PULSE: Can fans expect to see new maps soon? Scenarios? Big figs or anything outside of a normal release?
LEITHEUSSER: I would like to do more maps. The map packs we put out last summer meets some of the need for maps. There are currently no plans for more big figs or anything other than a regular release.
THE PULSE: Marvel Universe seemed like a good opportunity for hard-core HeroClix fans to get a new map. Instead, a shorter, tournament-illegal, reworked version of an old map was included. Why wasnât a standard sized map included with Marvel Universe?
LEITHEUSSER: Again, the business side of things comes into play. It all boils down to cost. The reduction in the size of the map in the Universe set helped us to put the Starter set out at such a low price. It isnât ideal in terms of game play, but it was the best way to go when keeping in mind the goal of the Marvel Universe set to pull in new players.
THE PULSE: Tell me about Galactus-Gate at Wizard World L.A. from your perspective.
LEITHEUSSER: I think the term âGalactus-Gateâ is inappropriate. The situation was problematic, but it wasnât impeachment-worthy. The reasons for what happened have already been mentioned. Ten thousand more people showed up than what either WizKids or the Wizard World people were expecting. And there was no way to forecast that kind of turnout. There was nothing Machiavellian on the part of WizKids about Galactus, it was really a matter of not knowing. We wanted to make Galactus something cool and neat and itâs a shame that his debut didnât go as well as we would have liked. As for making Galactus more common, thatâs not going to happen. The idea of Galactus as a convention exclusive is that heâs a limited edition piece than not everyone is going to get. If you manage to get one, then itâs special and if you donât you keep trying. It drives excitement and interest. Once we make him available to everyone, then thereâs nothing special about him. Many, many companies do things like this and itâs surprising that people have reacted the way they have to it. Hopefully the changes weâve made for how the figures will be sold at future shows will make it more positive for everyone.
THE PULSE: For every thirty fanboys that live and die by the glory of HeroClix, thereâs at least one nitwit that has nothing good to say about it. Unfortunately, itâs that nitwit thatâs most vocal on the message boards. What goes through your head when you see some of the negativity on message boards about your product?
LEITHEUSSER: Most of what gets me really bothered on the message boards is misinformation. Either opinion presented as fact or something thatâs just horribly wrong in the first place. I rarely jump in to correct someone, as that can lead to a drawn out discussion I donât have the time to be involved in. When approaching message board topics regarding HeroClix, I start with the assumption that nobody has anything positive to say. I counted. When we released the sneak peek of Marvel Girl, the first negative post was only four posts in, and it started to go downhill from there. I stopped reading at about six posts.
THE PULSE: Does a message board thread along the lines of âHereâs how I wouldâve done the characterâ ever influence your creations?
LEITHEUSSER: No⦠Never. First of all, if theyâre reworking a character Iâve already done, my thoughts are âthatâs interesting, but Iâve already done the characterâ. If itâs a character I havenât seen, I donât even want to look. I just donât want to pollute myself. Itâs too fine a line between inspiration and plagiarism. I admit that if Iâm not a big fan of the character, then people who are a big fan may be upset by the representation. I canât know all the comic characters out there, but Iâm a fair authority on the majority of them. Lady Shiva and the first Batgirl from DC Cosmic Justice were harshly criticized and I probably could have been done better on them if I were a bigger fan of those characters. I try to make every character as accurate as possible, but ultimately, these are all my interpretations of the characters and they will naturally differ from someone elseâs.
THE PULSE: How do you go about picking the line ups for the releases? Do fans have any input? Playtesters? Is it a committee decision or all on you?
LEITHEUSSER: Playtesters and fans donât have any official say but I pay attention to what theyâre asking for. Really, the line-ups for releases all start with me. I come up with the entire set and run it by the marketing department for approval. Sometimes one of the WizKids sculptors will request to do a certain character, and Iâll put that character in the set knowing Iâll get back a really good sculpt. Itâs funny, but sometimes I see peopleâs wish lists on line and theyâre taking credit for predicting half the characters in the next set. And I think, well sure, if you guess 150 characters 20 are probably going to be right. An example of a character thatâs been brought up and dismissed is DCâs Etrigan the Demon. Just too many issues surrounding putting a character named âthe Demonâ in the set. That doesnât mean Iâve given up on the character, though. Iâd like to get him in eventually.
THE PULSE: Characters from Kingdom Come appeared in Unleashed. Was Alex Ross involved on any level with DC Unleashed?
LEITHEUSSER: DC owns the rights to those characters, so it was DC Comics who signed off on WizKids being able to use those characters. Alex was asked to do the box art for the set, but that didnât happen for a variety of reasons. And when DC found out that Alex couldnât do the box art, they asked that none of the Kingdom Come characters be used on the box art. They didnât want anybody but Alex to handle the characters. Theyâre thinking was that if it wasnât Alex, than it wouldnât look right. And thatâs something I agree with. Even so, it would be great to get his art on the boxes at some point. Hopefully in the future.
THE PULSE: Are you kept apprised of storylines in advance? For instance, did you know that Xorn was Magneto before any fanboy had an inkling? Do Marvel and DC try to keep you aware of upcoming character changes?
LEITHEUSSER: No. We didnât know about Xorn. They donât tell us that sort of thing. It wouldâve been nice to know about Xorn in advance. We often ask about plans for a certain characters, and which characters would be nice to include in a set. Itâs nice to dovetail characters with a new comic release, or a movie appearance. Another example of changes to characters that we couldnât have known about is when they gave Archangel the power to heal people. Wellâ¦we just put out an Archangel and he didnât have that power when we created him, so I couldnât have put it on the dial. That sort of thing happens because of how far ahead we have to make the dials. Still, it wouldâve been nice to know.
THE PULSE: Marvel has the premier set, four expansions, and now Universe. DC has the premier set and two expansions. Do you rank DC lower than Marvel in terms of WizKidsâ priorities? How do the two match up in your upcoming schedules?
LEITHEUSSER: Thereâs no preference on the part of WizKids towards one comic company or the other. I view HeroClix as one game line. The only reason for any perceived Marvel dominance is that Marvel is making movies. Xplosion and Ultimates were put out to coincide with the big Marvel summer movies. When DC starts putting out more movies, maybe weâll swing that way.
THE PULSE: When can we hope to see the next DC set?
LEITHEUSSER: Itâll be a little while, but it will happen. Thatâs all I can say.
THE PULSE: Any plans to branch out in the DC Universe with teams like the Outsiders, the Metal Men, and the Doom Patrol, or expand rosters of teams like the JSA and the Legion? Any plans for Silver Age versions of some characters? Any plans for the animated Teen Titans?
LEITHEUSSER: Yeah, weâre definitely looking to expand. The problems with adding team abilities is that thereâs only so much room on the Powers and Abilities Card. Iâve been working on some other options, though, so you may see a different approach in the future. Iâm interested in doing Golden or Silver Age versions of DC Characters, especially Barry Allen. But those choices have to be made carefully, because character recognition is important and some of the Silver Age versions look completely different from the current day version. Thatâs not a problem in the Flashâs case, but it certainly is for others. As for the animated versions of the Teen Titans, thatâs a different license completely, so no plans for them.
THE PULSE: When can we expect to see the entirely Aquaman-themed DC HeroClix set?
LEITHEUSSER: Uhmmm ⦠next week. [laughs]
PULSE NOTES
About the Catwoman special edition piece, can fans redeem UPC symbols from Hypertime starter sets they bought two years ago? Can they substitute UPC symbols from the DC Premier Edition set?
Jon didnât know the answer to this, and asked me to check with marketing. I sent a quick note to Jason Mical, Communications Manager for WizKids, Inc. The answer I got back was that the register receipt had to be dated after June 4th, 2004. And yes, fans can use the UPCs from Premium Starter sets.
More information about the Catwoman special edition piece can be viewed at the WizKids website
Thanks to Jon Leitheusser for taking the time to withstand an interview with me. Marvel HeroClix Ultimates releases on June 30th, 2004 and Marvel Universe is in stores now. For more information about WizKids and their products, please visit their website.
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